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In that period, at that time...till the assembly dispersed.

In that period, at that time, 艢谤补尘补峁嘺 叠丑补驳补惫腻苍 惭补丑腻惫墨谤补 had a disciple named monk 狈腻谤补诲补辫耻迟谤补 who was gentle by nature, and so on.

In that period, at that time, 艢谤补尘补峁嘺 叠丑补驳补惫腻苍 惭补丑腻惫墨谤补 had another disciple named monk 狈颈谤驳谤补苍迟丑墨辫耻迟谤补 who was gentle by nature, and so on.

Once monk 狈颈谤驳谤补苍迟丑墨辫耻迟谤补 came to monk 狈腻谤补诲补辫耻迟谤补, and having come to him, he said as follows:

Q. 143. 膧谤测补! Do you think that all the pudgalas (matter) are 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补, or anardha, amadhya and 补辫谤补诲别艣补?

So said monk 狈腻谤补诲补辫耻迟谤补 to monk 狈颈谤驳谤补苍迟丑墨辫耻迟谤补:

A. 143. In my view, all pudgalas are 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补, and not anardha, amadhya and 补辫谤补诲别艣补.

On this, monk 狈颈谤驳谤补苍迟丑墨辫耻迟谤补 said as follows to monk 狈腻谤补诲补辫耻迟谤补:

Q. 144. 膧谤测补! If, in your opinion, all pudgalas are 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补, and not anardha, amadhya and 补辫谤补诲别艣补, then, 膧谤测补, as substance, are they 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补, and not anardha, amadhya and 补辫谤补诲别艣补? As place, are they 蝉腻谤诲丑补, and so on. And are they so as time and as phenomena?

Thereon, monk 狈腻谤补诲补辫耻迟谤补 said as follows to monk 狈颈谤驳谤补苍迟丑墨辫耻迟谤补:

A. 144. In my opinion, as substance, all pudgalas are 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补, and not anardha, amadhya and 补辫谤补诲别艣补. And so are they as place, as time and as phenomena,

Then monk 狈颈谤驳谤补苍迟丑墨辫耻迟谤补 said as follows to monk 狈腻谤补诲补辫耻迟谤补:

膧谤测补! If, as substance, all pudgalas are 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补, and not anardha, amadhya and 补辫谤补诲别艣补, then, in your view, molecules of matter, too, should be 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补, and not anardha, amadhya and 补辫谤补诲别艣补.

膧谤测补! If, as place, all pudgalas are 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补, then, matter existing on 补辫谤补诲别艣补 of the space should also be 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补. 膧谤测补! If, as time, all pudgalas are 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补, then matter existing on a 辫谤补诲别艣补 of time should also be 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补.

膧谤测补! If, as phenomena, all pudgalas are 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补, then, matter which is one-time black should be 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补. If, however, in your opinion, they are not so, then, your assertion that all 辫耻腻驳补濒补蝉 as substance, as place, as time and as phenomena, are 蝉腻谤诲丑补, samadhya and 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补, and are not anardha, amadhya and 补辫谤补诲别艣补 will be wrong.

Whereon monk 狈腻谤补诲补辫耻迟谤补 said as follows to monk 狈颈谤驳谤补苍迟丑墨辫耻迟谤补:

Oh beloved of the gods! I know not this meaning, nor see this. If this causes not pain unto thee, oh beloved of the gods, to give me the meaning of this, then, from thee, who are the beloved of the gods, I would like to hear and know this.

Whereon monk 狈颈谤驳谤补苍迟丑墨辫耻迟谤补 said as follows to monk 狈腻谤补诲补辫耻迟谤补:

In my view, as substance, all 辫耻腻驳补濒补蝉 are with 辫谤补诲别艣补s as also without 辫谤补诲别艣补s. They are infinite. As place, as time, as phenomena, too, they are like that. When, as substance, 辫耻腻驳补濒补蝉 are without 辫谤补诲别艣补s, then, as place, too, they are, as a rule, without 辫谤补诲别艣补s. As time, they are sometimes with 辫谤补诲别艣补s, and sometimes without 辫谤补诲别艣补s. As phenomena, also, they are sometimes with 辫谤补诲别艣补s and sometimes without 辫谤补诲别艣补s. When, as place, pudgalas are without 辫谤补诲别艣补s, as substance, they are sometimes with 辫谤补诲别艣补s and sometimes without 辫谤补诲别艣补s. When, as time, pudgalas are without 辫谤补诲别艣补s, as substance, as place, and as phenomena, they are sometimes 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补 and sometimes 补辫谤补诲别艣补. When as phenomena, pudgalas are without 辫谤补诲别艣补s, as substance, as place, and as time, they are sometimes 蝉补辫谤补诲别艣补 and sometimes 补辫谤补诲别艣补. (Thus) they are as place, as they are as time and as phenomena. When pudgalas are, as substance, with 辫谤补诲别艣补s, as place, they are sometimes with 辫谤补诲别艣补s and sometimes without 辫谤补诲别艣补s; and like this, they are as time and as phenomena. When pudgalas are, as place, with 辫谤补诲别艣补s, as substance, too, they are, as a rule, with 辫谤补诲别艣补s, and the same of these as time and as phenomena. As with pudgalas as substance, so (with these) as time, and as phenomena.

Q. 145. Bhante! From the standpoint of substance, of place, of time, and of phenomena, as between pudgalas 鈥榳颈迟丑 辫谤补诲别艣补s and those without 辫谤补诲别艣补s, which ones are more...till especially more?

A. 145. 狈腻谤补诲补辫耻迟谤补! As phenomena, pudgalas without 辫谤补诲别艣补s are the smallest (in number). As time, pudgalas without 辫谤补诲别艣补s are innumerable times more. As substance, pudgalas without 辫谤补诲别艣补s are innumerable times further more. As place, pudgalas without 辫谤补诲别艣补s are innumerable times still more.

Coming next to pudgalas with 辫谤补诲别艣补s, they are, as place, innumerable times more than the last item. As substance, pudgalas with 辫谤补诲别艣补s are innumerable times further more. As time, pudgalas with 辫谤补诲别艣补s are innumerable times still more. And as phenomena, pudgalas with 辫谤补诲别艣补s are especially more (i. e., most innumerable)³⁴.

Thereon, monk 狈腻谤补诲补辫耻迟谤补 paid his homage and obeisance to monk 狈颈谤驳谤补苍迟丑墨辫耻迟谤补. Having paid his homage and obeisance, he begged again and again to be forgiven for his confusion. Having thus begged to be forgiven, he lived on enriching his soul by restraint and penance.

Notes (based on commentary of Abhayadeva S奴ri):

34. The following is an imaginary case regarding the distribution of pudgalas with and without 辫谤补诲别艣补s. It may give an idea regarding their proportions:

pudgalas as	phenomena	time	substance	space
Without 辫谤补诲别艣补s	1,000	2,000	5,000	10,000
With 辫谤补诲别艣补s	99,000	98,000	90,000	90,000